[Peace-discussion] Re: Coalition with Libertarians Unless they Are Openly Racist or White Nationalists

Sun, 16 Dec 2007 09:10:09 -0500

Well of course no one would want such an alliance.  But who is talking
about such a thing?
john walsh (MA delegate)

On 12/15/07, a.gronowicz@att.net <a.gronowicz@att.net> wrote:
>
>
> Couldn't agree more.  Tony
>
> -------------- Original message from "henry duke" <henryduke2004@yahoo.com>:
> --------------
>
>
> > The nazi's, KKK, or radical libertarians in the minutemen; Me and mine
> shall
> > have no coalition with.
> >
> > Being against the war because you want the National Guard back in the USA
> to
> > build the wall against Mexicans, is a position I will not make coalition
> > with, as these chauvinists are the growing righwing violent militias which
> I
> > will positively peacefully oppose.
> >
> > I can make coalition with uneducated, unprincipled opportunists, or even
> > evil cynical fools like the Democrats, Libertarians, Greens, or
> Republicans
> > who think Iraq is wrong because the real war should be in Afghanistan.
> >
> > And for the European Colonialist types who justify White or European
> > "democracies" like Israe l or South Africa as legitimate, yes, like the
>
> > European conquests of the so called new world, they may be legitimate, but
> > it is a legitimacy based on terrorism, violence, and war, and specifically
> > White / European terrorism, violence, and genocide.
> >
> > Having blabbed that I can work in coalition with anti-war types, but when
> it
> > comes to openly chauvinist folks, I draw a line, refuse, and IMO - and
> very
> > stubborn opinion -- we all should and I think we should exclude people
> from
> > any peace action committee who are not committed to anti-racism or against
> > womyn rights.
> >
> > For action,
> > Henry
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: peace-discussion-admin@lists.gp-us.org
> > [mailto:peace-discussion-admin@lists.gp-us.org] On Behalf
> Of Aimee Smith
> > Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 11:15 AM
> > To: John Walsh
> > Cc: a.gronowicz@att.net; David Strand ; Nick Schmader; GPAX Discussion
> List
> > Subject: Re: So John, what's your plan...Re: [Peace-discussion] Must read.
> >
> > on fillibuster -
> > There is someone in town very excited to join this campaign
> > Will let you know what we come up with. In particular, he wants
> > to expose the democratic officials enabling war.
> >
> > On coaltion with Libertarians:
> > in MI we have a third parties coalition with the libertarians (who
> > have ballot status), socialists (who don't have ballot status), and
> > US Taxpayers party (who like us have ballot status.) It is mostly
> > geared toward electoral reforms, but as far as I am aware, the
> > alliance is cordial and productive.
> >
> > Aimee
> >
> > On Dec 15, 2007, at 2:05 PM, John Walsh wrote:
> >
> > > I might point out that the same "pwog" Dems like UFPJ have worked hard
> > > to keep Greens, Libertarians and Ralph Nader out of the peace
> > > movement. We already have the same enemies.
> > >
> > > Now you ask how an alliance with Libertarians is possible? To do so
> > > at the national level is something that needs work. It will not
> > > happen if we do not discuss it.
> > > BUT I think of two things:
> > > First, see FilibusterForPeace.org Kevin Zeese (another Green),
> > > myself and Richard Aucoin, the Libertarian Lt. Gubernatorial candidate
> > > here in MA, started it. In fact we fondly hope that GPAX will push
> > > this - it shows that the Dems HAVE the power to end the war in a
> > > veto-proof way to end the war. They have the power but they favor the
> > > war. That is a great help in getting at the "left" wing of the
> > > duopoly.
> > > Let's discuss it in our next conference call.
> > > Second, Kevin Zeese ran a Senatorial campaign in which he got the
> > > end orsement of Libertarians AND Greens in MD. That is a model for the
> > > future.
> > >
> > > Right now Paul is much to be preferred over any of the candidates
> > > running a real national campaign.
> > >
> > > john walsh (MA delegate)
> > >
> > > p.s. I stopped talking of sins when I abandoned my plans for the
> > > seminary at age 17. Or as Jesse Jackson said once, "This is politics
> > > not theology." Principles are essential and no one is speaking of
> > > abandoning them BUT on the Left there is often a smugness about having
> > > all the answers. We do not. Too often this smugness is a triumph of
> > > ideology over fact - to paraphrase Ralph Nader in another context.
> > >
> > > On 12/15/07, a.gronowicz@att.net wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Correct. Tony
> > >>
> > >> -------------- Original message from David Strand
> > >> :
> > >> --------------
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> Seven Deadly Social Sins
> > >>>
> > >>> Gandhi
> > >>>
> > >>> 1] politics without principle
> > >>>
> > >>> 2] wealth without work
> > >>>
> > >>> 3] commerce without morality
> > >>>
> > >>> 4] pleasure without conscience
> > >>>
> > >>> 5] education without character
> > >>>
> > >>> 6] science without humanity
> > >>>
> > >>> 7] worship without sacrifice
> > >>>
> > >>> John, I am willing to make alliances to end the war
> > >>> but as far as your statements about "purity" I think
> > >>> what you are calling "purity" is wh at many of us we
> > >>> call "principles" and I don't believe in doing
> > >>> politics without principles.
> > >>>
> > >>> Can we still form strategic alliances to achieve
> > >>> common goals such as ending the war?
> > >>>
> > >>> Abso lutely.
> > >>>
> > >>> Do I think liberterians are gulity of several of
> > >>> Ghandi's so called Deadly Social Sins?
> > >>>
> > >>> Yes!
> > >>>
> > >>> But I'm still willing to work with them towards common
> > >>> ends.
> > >>>
> > >>> So, what is your proposal and how would it work?
> > >>>
> > >>> No one has said we can't do such alliances for
> > >>> strategic purposes we are simply saying why we don't
> > >>> support Ron Paul. Now a strategy to end the war
> > >>> together with Ron Paul supporters, that is obviously
> > >>> open to discussion, what does it look like?
> > >>>
> > >>> After all, even the nonviolent theologian and theorist
> > >>> Bonhoffer found that sometimes actions he would have
> > >>> thought unthinkable were right under given
> > >>> circumstances.
> > >>>
> > >>> David Strand
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> > >> ___________
> > >>> ____
> > >> & gt; Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
> > >>> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> > > _______________________________________________
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