[Peace-discussion] FW: GPUS NC Delegate: "we non-Marxists of European descent"
henry duke
henryduke2004@yahoo.com
Wed, 26 Dec 2007 16:37:45 -0800
Thank you Rebecca "RebelRot",
You stand up for principles even while everyone around us is sinking our
ship.
Some of us have only just begun forward thinking about new vehicles/bylaws.
All of which will be only to forward an entity which can carry a democratic
and independent agenda that is congruent with the ten key values you herein
effectively and beautifully articulate.
Again, Thank you Sister, and look forward to finally meeting you sometime!
For love and justice,
Henry Duke
Califas AKA California
---------------------
Subject: GPUS NC Delegate: "we non-Marxists of European descent"
Whoever is working on the McKinney campaign, may I strongly suggest that
their campaign come out strongly calling for the removal of Brent McMillan.
It will be to the most extreme detriment of any progressive, peace, or Green
Party national candidate to associate itself with him or his yes-men/womyn
on the GPUS steering committee.
Let me again emphasize that positive action can be taken at this point by
the McKinney campaign that will give her supporters deniability.
I had been considering supporting McKinney months ago for the sake of a
united front, I will still do so;
BUT PLEASE, do not lay everything at my feet because I speak up or out, or
get interpreted as the nay-sayer, calling out for the most bare modicum of
decency or minimalistic accountability.
To my knowledge, John Morton and Sanda Everette are good people, and for
Cynthia McKinney's and our party's sake, I beg them to take her the message
that she could likely take the whole campaign and votes if she distances
herself or condemns the "out of the box" Unapologetic In-Your-Face White
Male Chauvinism of someone who was acting as our professional Political
Director.
In my opinion, a national committee member on a GPUS national listserve who
refers to our party as "we non-Marxists of European descent" must be removed
from the national committee. End of story, self evident.
Will the California Delegation Speak Up or Speak Out?
I will write a resolution for our delegation's consideration if asked by
McKinney campaign coordinator's John Morton or Sanda Everett.
It is not too late to unite...
Henry Duke
-----Original Message-----
From: natlcomaffairs-bounces@green.gpus.org
[mailto:natlcomaffairs-bounces@green.gpus.org] On Behalf Of
natlcomaffairs-request@green.gpus.org
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 12:23 PM
To: natlcomaffairs@green.gpus.org
Subject: Natlcomaffairs Digest, Vol 49, Issue 226
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Elaine Brown (Rebecca Rotzler)
2. Re: [usgp-nc] Brent isn't Resigning Per Phil Huckelberry So
Duke Will Refuse to Speak Further (David McCorquodale)
3. Re: operation Mini-FALCON (Gary Novosielski)
4. Re: operation Mini-FALCON (hhart@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu)
5. Re: operation Mini-FALCON (Gary Novosielski)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 14:25:49 -0500
From: "Rebecca Rotzler" <rrrotzler@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [usgp-dx] Elaine Brown
To: "Paul Stephens" <greateco@3rivers.net>
Cc: natlcomaffairs@green.gpus.org
Message-ID:
<e343c9e70712261125p7f05cef6tf940a3ccdac1e32e@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Paul,
Which point would that be? Respect is generally an emotional response
one has to another human based upon that person's actions.
Unfortunately in many cases it is influenced by how one perceives
another based upon appearance. I still would like to know on what
specific information your apparent disrespect for Ms. Brown is based
upon. I belong to the Green Party because it is the party which
represents my views on many topics, the death penalty, social justice,
etc. I did not call you a racist or white supremacist, your remark
stating that this is a party of non-Marxists of European decent would
imply a party of white people, a PARTY that would exclude darker
skinned persons like myself would appear to be white supremacist,
would it not?
I am opposed to the death penalty, are you? I believe in equal rights
(including marriage) for people regardless of sexual orientation, do
you? I believe people should be treated equally regardless of their
skin color, hair texture, religion, mobility, education, income level,
etc, do you? I believe in reparations for those who have historically
suffered due to racist practices, do you? I hope your answers are
yes, and I truly am curious as to why you are a Green. What parts of
our 10 Key Values and platform do you actually agree with?
Regarding the last two presidential elections, I highly suggest
viewing two documentaries, American Blackout featuring Cynthia
McKinney and An Unreasonable Man, featuring Ralph Nader.
Rebecca Rotzler, NY
On Dec 26, 2007 1:57 PM, Paul Stephens <greateco@3rivers.net> wrote:
> You make my point precisely. So, let me be the first white person to
> resign. Obviously, we get no respect, here, even from other white people.
> You even get my Bulletin, so you don't have the excuse that Lemburg,
Arnone,
> et. al. have (to call me a racist or white supremacist).
> Why would any person, of any race or background, want to belong to the
Green
> Party? I've been a supporter of it since 1983, but it's been nothing but
> grief and deprivation. I think I agree with In These Times. The Green
> Party has accomplished something. It put George Bush in the White House,
> and kept him there for a second term. Congratulations.
> Paul Stephens, Montana Delegate (I was kidding about the resigning).
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rebecca Rotzler" <rrrotzler@gmail.com>
> To: "Paul Stephens" <greateco@3rivers.net>
> Cc: <sandylemberg@juno.com>; <natlcomaffairs@green.gpus.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 11:31 AM
> Subject: Re: [usgp-dx] Elaine Brown
>
>
> > Dear Paul,
> >
> > Do you or any of us have reason to NOT treat Ms. Brown courteously and
> > positively? Have you had personal contact with her or ever read or
> > heard anything she has said directly to give you reason to back up
> > your claims or warrant your objection to her being a Green? Can you
> > share with us your objection to having Black Panthers within our
> > membership?
> >
> > Just to clarify, Elaine Brown did not just join the Green Party, and I
> > for one would not have any objection to any Black revolutionary
> > wanting to JOIN our party. By design we are a party made up of
> > individuals with equal power, it is part of our 10 Key Values. I
> > agree with Sandy, if you are going to continue spreading disparaging
> > remarks regarding Ms. Brown please be prepared to produce solid
> > evidence to back up your claims.
> >
> > Back to your remarks--so is this a party of non-Marxists of European
> > descent? My gosh, I ran for office and served a four year term
> > representing what sounds like a White Supremacist party? My bad, what
> > on earth was I thinking bringing my brown skin around the likes of
> > you!
> >
> > Rebecca Rotzler, NY
> > The disclaimer: speaking for myself, not having shared these thoughts
> > with members of the state I represent. However, somehow I believe
> > they'd "have my back."
> >
> > On Dec 26, 2007 1:05 PM, Paul Stephens <greateco@3rivers.net> wrote:
> > > Since I don't have a wife, the question makes no sense to me. Why did
> you
> > > omit the very next sentence, which defines this whole controversy as
> being
> > > based on whether or not we believe what Brent understood "Valentine"
to
> have
> > > been saying? "(And whether or not she is trying to do that is
> apparently
> > > the source of the present controversy)."
> > >
> > > Since I don't know any of these people personally, I have no way to
> > > determine who, if anyone, is telling the truth. I suspect, though,
that
> it
> > > was merely a misunderstanding. "Valentine" may have been merely
joking
> or
> > > "setting up" Brent (and the rest of us) for a joke to the effect that
we
> are
> > > the paranoid ones. How can we know? Since Brent responded in a
> > > demonstrably paranoid fashion, he "fell for" the joke.
> > >
> > > Apparently I was mistaken in the idea that Elaine's Green Party
campaign
> is
> > > no longer active. California supporters are still campaigning for
her,
> and
> > > her main issue seems to be whether or not Cynthia McKinney will debate
> her
> > > publicly before the primary. Apparently, Cynthia does not want to
> subject
> > > herself to that sort of treatment. So, here are two black womyn, both
> > > recent "converts" to the Green Party, and both running for the same
> office!
> > > Most Green Party regulars were not especially supportive of either
> campaign,
> > > but once we got to know Cynthia and her record, we found ourselves
being
> > > strong supporters. The more we learn about Elaine and her record, the
> less
> > > attractive she seems. I don't doubt that she is a powerful and
> experienced
> > > leader. I just wonder how well she can fit in and work with the Green
> > > Party. (And I must say, as a newcomer to the NC, and having been
> whipsawed
> > > by the various factions many times, before, I am not happy with the
> Green
> > > Party leadership, either).
> > >
> > > So, let's put Brent, "Valentine," and Elaine together on a panel, and
> let
> > > someone cross-examine or question them as to what really happened,
what
> was
> > > said, and what was intended. Are we trying to build the Green Party,
or
> > > tear it down? If we're trying to tear it down, we must have some
better
> > > alternative to put in its place. What is it? The Black Panthers?
Some
> > > Marxist or other communist/socialist party? They're already there!
Any
> of
> > > you can quit and join them.
> > >
> > > I really don't get why we non-Marxists of European descent should want
> to
> > > surrender our party to the first Black revolutionary who comes along
and
> > > wants to take it over. Imagine what would happen if a former Ku Klux
> Klaner
> > > or other "white separatist" or "white power" advocate wanted to run as
> our
> > > presidential candidate. Would he or she be treated as courteously and
> > > positively as Elaine has been?
> > >
> > > Paul Stephens, Montana Delegate
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <sandylemberg@juno.com>
> > > To: <greateco@3rivers.net>
> > > Cc: <natlcomaffairs@green.gpus.org>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 10:03 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [usgp-dx] Elaine Brown
> > >
> > >
> > > > When did you stop beating your wife, Paul?
> > > >
> > > > Or perhpas I should say:
> > > >
> > > > "Paul Stephens would be a great asset to the Green Party if he
weren't
> > > > beating his wife on a regular basis."
> > > >
> > > > In other words, if you want to say or even suggest that Elaine Brown
> is
> > > > "trying to overthrow or subvert" the GP, show us specifics.
> > > >
> > > > Sandy
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 02:15:00 -0700 "Paul Stephens"
> <greateco@3rivers.net>
> > > > writes:
> > > >
> > > > "Elaine is something of an icon, to feminists as well as black
> > > > revolutionaries, and would be a great asset to the Green Party if
she
> > > > wasn't trying to overthrow or subvert us."
> > > >
> > > And in a later post,
> > >
> > > "Apparently, she ... (Elaine Brown) ... is no longer pursuing a
> > > Presidential bid with us."
> > >
> > > What is the basis of this assertion?
> > >
> > > Please respond immediately.
> > >
> > > Sandy
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > Natlcomaffairs mailing list
> > > To send a message to the list, write to:
> > > Natlcomaffairs@green.gpus.org
> > > To unsubscribe or change your list options, go to:
> > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/natlcomaffairs
> > >
> > > You must know your password to do this.
> > >
> > > If you can't figure out how to
> > > unsubscribe, as a last resort only,
> > > send a message OFF LIST to
> > > steveh at olypen.com
> > >
> > > If your state delegation changes, please see:
> > > http://gp.org/committees/nc/documents/delegate_change.html
> > >
> > > To report violations of listserv protocol, write to
> forummanagers@lists.gp-us.org
> > >
> > > For other information about the National Committee, see:
> > > http://gp.org/committees/nc/
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.9/1197 - Release Date:
> 12/25/2007 8:04 PM
> >
> >
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 11:27:57 -0800 (PST)
From: David McCorquodale <h4fungi@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [usgp-dx] [usgp-nc] Brent isn't Resigning Per Phil
Huckelberry So Duke Will Refuse to Speak Further
To: natlcomaffairs@green.gpus.org
Message-ID: <101248.25340.qm@web58602.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Henry Duke said:
"I ... will no longer dignify or bother this group of
cyber greens with opinions of myself or the Elaine
Brown campaign."
Reply: Well, since you've never identified your
relationship to the Brown campaign, maybe now the
campaign will be speaking for itself.
David McCorquodale
Delaware
--- henry duke <henryduke2004@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I think this will be the final blow to Elaine
> Brown's seeking the
> presidential nomination of a biased, White-based,
> racist organization
> dominated as it were by a cointelpro-like agent --
> Brent McMillan.
>
> Cynthia McKinney may be able to unite the party, as
> she may give the White
> Power, a darker face.
>
> But nevertheless the White Power, intransigent,
> anti-democratic, and funded
> by 501c3 and Democratic Party money McKinney
> campaign, unless Ralph Nader
> and his supporters can rally to a call to separate
> from the duopoly that in
> Cynthia McKinney's case spoke eloquently with Bill
> Clinton to support and
> then vote for Federal Three Strikes legislation and
> the right to try Black
> Boys as adults and serve them lethal injection, and
> then outdid fellow
> democrat Barbara Lee, when Democrat and, according
> to some principled
> Georgia Greens, Green capital G, Cynthia McKinney
> voted to authorize the war
> powers act and allow GW Bush to initiate the Global
> War Of Terrorism.
>
> By the way, the GPUS is censoring me and Liz Arnone,
> so any pro/con emails
> you want to congratulate or demoralize me with
> please email me off list.
>
> I am trusting that what Phil Huckelberry is true,
> and therefore will no
> longer dignify or bother this group of cyber greens
> with opinions of myself
> or the Elaine Brown campaign.
>
>
> Change will not be emailed or chatted,
>
> For the people and against racism,
>
> Henry Duke
> GPCA NC Member Choosing Silence in the Face of
> Putative Brent McMillan
> Retention as GPUS Political Director
____________________________________________________________________________
________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 15:03:15 -0500
From: "Gary Novosielski" <gary@novosielski.com>
Subject: Re: [usgp-dx] operation Mini-FALCON
To: "David McCorquodale" <h4fungi@yahoo.com>
Cc: natlcomaffairs@green.gpus.org
Message-ID:
<d0fc80de0712261203y7d5d2603o62c0d9e247abe769@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
What Mr. McCorquodale recognizes probably better than he'd like us to think
is that everyone, at any time of the day or night, by merely breathing, is
theoreticallly "exposing" himself/herself and countless others to a
"lawsuit". The fact is that anyone can sue anyone else for any reason at
any time.
The charge that someone is "exposing" someone else to the "risk" of a
lawsuit is, therefore, usually nothing more than a rhetorical device for
telling someone to shut up, while appearing to be truly concerned for the
welfare of some other group or individual.
If anything Liz did "exposed" you/us/anyone to a lawsuit, it can only be
because you/we/they were already exposed to begin with, and not because of
anything Liz did. Fresh air and sunshine cure infections. Secrets cause
sickness.
=Gary
On Dec 26, 2007 2:09 PM, David McCorquodale <h4fungi@yahoo.com> wrote:
> From: Elizabeth Arnone <larnone47@yahoo.com>
> Subject: [usgp-dx] Re-Send - Postings on Nat'l Lists
> To: natlcomaffairs@green.gpus.org
> Message-ID:
> <652405.51942.qm@web62013.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Wow..... shutting down free speech altogether via
> moderation. It's operation Mini-FALCON.
>
> Liz Arnone
>
> Reply: What Liz Arnone either fails to realize or
> refuses to admit is that by copying the text of
> McMillan's e-mail to the SC, she has exposed GPUS to
> the possibility of a lawsuit by either Elaine Brown or
> our employee or both. Unfortunately, there appear to
> be a few other delegates with similar attitudes.
> However, I hope the overwhelming majority of us see
> the wisdom of not throwing out the baby with the bath
> water.
>
> David McCorquodale
> Delaware
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
________
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
> _______________________________________________
> Natlcomaffairs mailing list
> To send a message to the list, write to:
> Natlcomaffairs@green.gpus.org
> To unsubscribe or change your list options, go to:
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/natlcomaffairs
>
> You must know your password to do this.
>
> If you can't figure out how to
> unsubscribe, as a last resort only,
> send a message OFF LIST to
> steveh at olypen.com
>
> If your state delegation changes, please see:
> http://gp.org/committees/nc/documents/delegate_change.html
>
> To report violations of listserv protocol, write to
> forummanagers@lists.gp-us.org
>
> For other information about the National Committee, see:
> http://gp.org/committees/nc/
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 14:12:07 -0600
From: hhart@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu
Subject: Re: [usgp-dx] operation Mini-FALCON
To: natlcomaffairs@green.gpus.org
Message-ID: <20071226141207.qgxe7om90kgw0k0o@webmail.uiowa.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
format="flowed"
Of course one can sue and be sued for just about anything. What is of
concern here is how likely a suit might be successful. Gary' comments
are extremely irresponsible, but let's hope no one is stupid enough to
take them as grounds for re-posting the memo in question.
The *fact* is that re-sending all or portions or direct quotes of the
memo in *may* constitute re-publication. The SC prefers to follow the
rational approach, which is to ask folks not to re-send all or parts
of the memo.
Holly Hart
Secretary, GPUS
Quoting Gary Novosielski <gary@novosielski.com>:
> What Mr. McCorquodale recognizes probably better than he'd like us to
think
> is that everyone, at any time of the day or night, by merely breathing, is
> theoreticallly "exposing" himself/herself and countless others to a
> "lawsuit". The fact is that anyone can sue anyone else for any reason
at
> any time.
>
> The charge that someone is "exposing" someone else to the "risk" of a
> lawsuit is, therefore, usually nothing more than a rhetorical device for
> telling someone to shut up, while appearing to be truly concerned for the
> welfare of some other group or individual.
>
> If anything Liz did "exposed" you/us/anyone to a lawsuit, it can only be
> because you/we/they were already exposed to begin with, and not because of
> anything Liz did. Fresh air and sunshine cure infections. Secrets cause
> sickness.
>
> =Gary
>
>
> On Dec 26, 2007 2:09 PM, David McCorquodale <h4fungi@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Elizabeth Arnone <larnone47@yahoo.com>
>> Subject: [usgp-dx] Re-Send - Postings on Nat'l Lists
>> To: natlcomaffairs@green.gpus.org
>> Message-ID:
>> <652405.51942.qm@web62013.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> Wow..... shutting down free speech altogether via
>> moderation. It's operation Mini-FALCON.
>>
>> Liz Arnone
>>
>> Reply: What Liz Arnone either fails to realize or
>> refuses to admit is that by copying the text of
>> McMillan's e-mail to the SC, she has exposed GPUS to
>> the possibility of a lawsuit by either Elaine Brown or
>> our employee or both. Unfortunately, there appear to
>> be a few other delegates with similar attitudes.
>> However, I hope the overwhelming majority of us see
>> the wisdom of not throwing out the baby with the bath
>> water.
>>
>> David McCorquodale
>> Delaware
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
____________________________________________________________________________
________
>> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
>> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
>> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
>> _______________________________________________
>> Natlcomaffairs mailing list
>> To send a message to the list, write to:
>> Natlcomaffairs@green.gpus.org
>> To unsubscribe or change your list options, go to:
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/natlcomaffairs
>>
>> You must know your password to do this.
>>
>> If you can't figure out how to
>> unsubscribe, as a last resort only,
>> send a message OFF LIST to
>> steveh at olypen.com
>>
>> If your state delegation changes, please see:
>> http://gp.org/committees/nc/documents/delegate_change.html
>>
>> To report violations of listserv protocol, write to
>> forummanagers@lists.gp-us.org
>>
>> For other information about the National Committee, see:
>> http://gp.org/committees/nc/
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Natlcomaffairs mailing list
> To send a message to the list, write to:
> Natlcomaffairs@green.gpus.org
> To unsubscribe or change your list options, go to:
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/natlcomaffairs
>
> You must know your password to do this.
>
> If you can't figure out how to
> unsubscribe, as a last resort only,
> send a message OFF LIST to
> steveh at olypen.com
>
> If your state delegation changes, please see:
> http://gp.org/committees/nc/documents/delegate_change.html
>
> To report violations of listserv protocol, write to
> forummanagers@lists.gp-us.org
>
> For other information about the National Committee, see:
> http://gp.org/committees/nc/
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 15:22:41 -0500
From: "Gary Novosielski" <gary@novosielski.com>
Subject: Re: [usgp-dx] operation Mini-FALCON
To: hhart@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu
Cc: natlcomaffairs@green.gpus.org
Message-ID:
<d0fc80de0712261222p2dd19cb3ja3bb21deb182a491@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Dec 26, 2007 3:12 PM, <hhart@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu> wrote:
> The *fact* is that re-sending all or portions or direct quotes of the
> memo in *may* constitute re-publication.
Yes, but then again, by definition, the **fact** is that it **may not**.
Motivation by fear. How Bushian.
=Gary Novosielski; GPNJ delegate
------------------------------
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