[Peace-discussion] Re: [usgp-dx] Human rights in Iran

Thu, 07 Jun 2007 19:15:37 -0400

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>  From: Scott McLarty <scottmclarty@yahoo.com> Date: June 7, 2007
>  11:31:59 AM GMT-04:00 To: USGP Discussion
>  <natlcomaffairs@green.gpus.org> Subject: Re: [usgp-dx] Human rights
>  in Iran (Re: Re: Accounts of state-sanctioned anti-gay
>
> > Are they real? As real as the WMDs in Iraq in 2003?
>
>  My own knowledge of antigay persecution in Iran doesn't just come
>  from reading articles & web sites written by journalists like Doug
>  Ireland (who's hardly a patsy for US official propaganda).

The fact, Scott, is that human rights abuses are commonly fabricated or 
distorted in the service of empire. I take your conspicuous silence on 
the case of the two Iranian teens executed in 2005, which I mentioned, 
as tacit acknowledgment of that. Interested folks can read Richard Kim's 
expose of this affair in "Witnesses to an Execution" 
<http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050815/kim/3> in The Nation. Suffice it 
to say, Doug Ireland was, by no means, the only person to stoke or join 
in this particular feeding frenzy.

>  A few years ago I helped an openly gay Iranian friend of mine find
>  some legal assistance when he was informed that his stay in the US
>  was over and he would have to return to Iran in a few months.
>
>  He was quite realistic, nearly to the point of hysteria, about the
>  fate that awaited him on his arrival.  He knew of gay men in Iran who
>  had suffered rejection from their families, police beatings, and
>  jail.  (He managed to get some kind of asylum in the US and now lives
>  in Chicago.) His story was consistent with accounts I've heard and
>  read by other gay Iranians.

" ... rejection from their families, police beatings, and jail," Scott? 
All unheard of in the ol' enlightened US of A, eh? Certainly, such 
treatment is comparatively rare for American LGBT people from the same, 
undoubtedly, elevated social stratum as your Iranian friend but, 
speaking as one who was an activist and board member at a local LGBT 
community center for several years, I can tell you that the experience 
of many poor and working-class LGBT people in the US is not so different 
from what your friend feared upon his return to Iran. Just today, The 
Rochester Democrat and Chronicle reported on allegation that police 
arrested the victims of a gay-bashing incident and let the perps go 
free. Also, prison rape is common and unofficially sanctioned in the US. 
As the ACLU noted in the case of Roderick Johnson 
<http://www.aclu.org/prison/conditions/19959prs20050916.html>, "Gay 
prisoners ... are highly vulnerable to rape and exploitation perpetrated 
by prison gangs." True, fours years ago, the US Supreme Court, by a 6-3 
decision, did finally invalidate "homosexual sodomy" laws, which 
obviously places the US light-years ahead of Iran (sarcasm intended).

>  Before Stalin died, a lot of people on the left in the US preferred
>  to discount reports of his atrocities as Western propaganda, until
>  the USSR itself revealed the extent of Stalin's crimes in 1957.  The
>  revelations caused a crisis in US socialist circles and leftist
>  parties lost a lot of membership.

You have selected an interesting case, Scott. The American cover up of 
Soviet crimes under Stalin was most pronounced and effective when the 
USSR was an American ally, especially before and after the German-Soviet 
Non-aggression Pact of 1939, which lasted less than two years.  Thus, 
for example, when it was revealed that in 1940 the Soviets had massacred 
thousands of Poles in the Katyn Forest the Polish people were betrayed 
by Churchill and Roosevelt, the matter was covered up and blame was 
shifted onto the official enemy--Nazi Germany. So, your example actually 
highlights the selective and dishonest manipulation of atrocities and 
human rights abuses by the American government.

>  Regardless of what kind of response Greens should have towards the
>  systematic abuse of human rights in places like Iran and Russia, we
>  should not be so dishonest as to sweep it under a rug.

You are flailing at straw men, Scott. No one in the GPUS has even 
remotely suggested that "the systematic abuse of human rights in places 
like Iran and Russia" should be swept under a rug. What has been 
suggested is that the GPUS should not be a participant in the systematic 
abuse of human rights discourse.

Michelle J. Kinnucan
GPMI, GPAX

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&gt; From: Scott McLarty
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:scottmclarty@yahoo.com">&lt;scottmclarty@yahoo.com&gt;</a> Date: June 7, 2007 
&gt; 11:31:59 AM GMT-04:00 To: USGP Discussion 
&gt; <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:natlcomaffairs@green.gpus.org">&lt;natlcomaffairs@green.gpus.org&gt;</a> Subject: Re: [usgp-dx] Human
rights 
&gt; in Iran (Re: Re: Accounts of state-sanctioned anti-gay 
&gt; 
&gt;&gt; Are they real? As real as the WMDs in Iraq in 2003? 
&gt; 
&gt; My own knowledge of antigay persecution in Iran doesn't just come 
&gt; from reading articles &amp; web sites written by journalists like
Doug 
&gt; Ireland (who's hardly a patsy for US official propaganda). 
 
The fact, Scott, is that human rights abuses are commonly fabricated or
distorted in the service of empire. I take your conspicuous silence on
the case of the two Iranian teens executed in 2005, which I mentioned,
as tacit acknowledgment of that. Interested folks can read Richard
Kim's expose of this affair in "Witnesses to an Execution"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050815/kim/3">&lt;http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050815/kim/3&gt;</a> in The Nation.
Suffice it to say, Doug Ireland was, by no means, the only person to
stoke or join in this particular feeding frenzy. 
 
&gt; A few years ago I helped an openly
gay Iranian friend of mine find 
&gt; some legal assistance when he was informed that his stay in the US
 
&gt; was over and he would have to return to Iran in a few months. 
&gt; 
&gt; He was quite realistic, nearly to the point of hysteria, about the
 
&gt; fate that awaited him on his arrival.&nbsp; He knew of gay men in Iran
who 
&gt;&nbsp; had suffered rejection from their families, police beatings, and 
&gt; jail.&nbsp; (He managed to get some kind of asylum in the US and now
lives 
&gt;&nbsp; in Chicago.) His story was consistent with accounts I've heard
and 
&gt; read by other gay Iranians. 
 
" ... rejection from their families, police beatings, and jail," Scott?
All unheard of in the ol' enlightened US of A, eh? Certainly, such
treatment is comparatively rare for American LGBT people from the same,
undoubtedly, elevated social stratum as your Iranian friend but,
speaking as one who was an activist and board member at a local LGBT
community center for several years, I can tell you that the experience
of many poor and working-class LGBT people in the US is not so
different from what your friend feared upon his return to Iran. Just
today, The Rochester Democrat and Chronicle reported on allegation that
police arrested the victims of a gay-bashing incident and let the perps
go free. Also, prison rape is common and unofficially sanctioned in the
US. As the ACLU noted in the case of&nbsp; Roderick Johnson
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.aclu.org/prison/conditions/19959prs20050916.html">&lt;http://www.aclu.org/prison/conditions/19959prs20050916.html&gt;</a>,
"Gay prisoners ... are highly vulnerable to rape and exploitation
perpetrated by prison gangs." True, fours years ago, the US Supreme
Court, by a 6-3 decision, did finally invalidate "homosexual sodomy"
laws, which obviously places the US light-years ahead of Iran (sarcasm
intended). 
 
&gt; Before Stalin died, a lot of
people on the left in the US preferred 
&gt; to discount reports of his atrocities as Western propaganda, until
 
&gt; the USSR itself revealed the extent of Stalin's crimes in 1957.&nbsp;
The 
&gt;&nbsp; revelations caused a crisis in US socialist circles and leftist 
&gt; parties lost a lot of membership. 
 
You have selected an interesting case, Scott. The American cover up of
Soviet crimes under Stalin was most pronounced and effective when the
USSR was an American ally, especially before and after the
German-Soviet Non-aggression Pact of 1939, which lasted less than two
years.&nbsp; Thus, for example, when it was revealed that in 1940 the
Soviets had massacred thousands of Poles in the Katyn Forest the Polish
people were betrayed by Churchill and Roosevelt, the matter was covered
up and blame was shifted onto the official enemy--Nazi Germany. So,
your example actually highlights the selective and dishonest
manipulation of atrocities and human rights abuses by the American
government. 
 
&gt; Regardless of what kind of
response Greens should have towards the 
&gt; systematic abuse of human rights in places like Iran and Russia,
we 
&gt; should not be so dishonest as to sweep it under a rug. 
 
You are flailing at straw men, Scott. No one in the GPUS has even
remotely suggested that "the systematic abuse of human rights in places
like Iran and Russia" should be swept under a rug. What has been
suggested is that the GPUS should not be a participant in the
systematic abuse of human rights discourse. 
 
Michelle J. Kinnucan 
GPMI, GPAX 
 
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