[Peace-discussion] RE: [GPUS-PAX] Democrats lack the guts- Expose of the Dems by one of our own
Joni LeViness
myths16@cox.net
Wed, 20 Jun 2007 17:40:35 -0500
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Tony and all,
i'm moving this discussion to the discussion list.
My thoughts and hopes interspersed below.
Thank you,
joni
_____
From: peace-admin@lists.gp-us.org [mailto:peace-admin@lists.gp-us.org] On
Behalf Of a.gronowicz@att.net
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 5:28 PM
To: peace@lists.gp-us.org
Subject: Re: [GPUS-PAX] Democrats lack the guts- Expose of the Dems by one
of our own
The facts as cited in numerous newspaper articles quoting La Marche speak
for themselves.
Were they all "misquoting"?
In violation of the rules,I was removed from ONE committee when I persisted
at the time of the 2004 campaign in pointing out how our anti-war
independent position was being undermined by her pro-Kerry statements. I was
quickly reinstated.
I was just re-elected to that committee-- the International Committee.
*Congratulations! I hope you all are doing well there, tough time in our
history to be on an International Committee!
The results of the 2004 election speak for themselves. Safe-states and
worse was an electoral disaster for this party. It severely "undermined"
our party. It almost "destroyed" us, but for the majority Nader supporters
among us.
When or if Safe States become an issue then that may be a time to bring your
thoughts up on the NC. But for Here and for Now,
on GPAX at this time, it's hardly productive or giving us who haven't even
gotten to know you yet a great first impression. It would be good to begin
again, perhaps on the issues of Peace in which you'd like to be a part?
Please tell us why you've asked to be vetted for gpax!
The venom comes from you who use words such as "trash".
Defenses come up and then Offenses, when Offenses are made out of
Defenses...it's a cycle that doesn't often get a lot of leg room on this
list.
Tony
P.S. And why quote from John Wayne, a war-monger? Why not Mark Twain, an
anti-imperialist?
If you write up an article using that wonderful source i would Love to read
it!
Peace and Civility,
joni
-------------- Original message from "John Atkeison" <john@atkeison.org>:
--------------
Tony has been removed from the email list of other committees for carrying
on his personal vendetta against Pat and disrupting work by doing so. Maybe
it is time for a "time out" here as well.
Just one comment so the trash does not go unchallenged. How many of us have
spoken with a journalist only to find that what we said was distorted? I
happened to me about a year ago when I was the manager of the Berg for
Congress campaign. Then it gets picked up by other outlets owned by the same
people, and god help you if it is a big one like Gannett or Associated
Press! So, who am *I* gonna believe- the Green who is bustin their butt for
us and has integrity and dedication, or the corporate media that we all bash
for good reason?
Pat and the Maine Greens have built the GP with the largest per capita Green
registration in the country-- not NY, not CA, but Maine. She is the public
face of that Party. Why would someone want to attack her and be so venomous?
Why are we are allowing a few in our midst to undermine and destroy us? It
has to stop.
John
On Wed, June 20, 2007 3:57 pm, a.gronowicz@att.net wrote:
> I mean to say here that the newspapers cited in footnote 1 reached
> thousands of readers, not my book.
>
> Tony Gronowicz www.greenmayor.org
>
> -------------- Original message from a.gronowicz@att.net: --------------
>
>
> An excerpt from my U.S. history with citations (that reached thousands of
> readers as well)with respect to LaMarche's role in 2004:
>
> She openly supported Kerry, while unequivocally denying that she had done
> so.[1] Nine days before the presidential election, in a D artmouth
> College address, LaMarche stated. "I do not say vote for Kerry, I do not
> say the K word. So he's not the perfect solution, he's the only one we
> have."[2] In an April 24, 2005, e-mail to the author, she denied ever
> having supported Kerry, stating unequivocally, "I have never made a
> pro-Kerry comment."
>
>
>
>
> [1] Portland Press Herald, June 30, 2004; Kennebec Journal/Central Morning
> Sentinel, June 30, 2004; New Haven Advocate, August 5, 2004; Associated
> Press, Lincoln, Nebraska, August 3, 4, 2004; Brunswick (ME) Times Record,
> September 20, 2004; Associated Press, Clark Canfield, October 7, 2004;
> "Greetings from Green Vice Presidential Candidate Pat LaMarche to the
> Greens, October 30, 2004; Michael Reagan@Times Record.com. Novemb er 12,
> 2004
> [2] The Dartmouth, October 25, 2004.
> http://www.thedartmouth.com/article.php?aid=20041025 01020
>
>
> -------------- Original message from "John Atkeison" :
> --------------
>
> I write with sorrow, not anger.
> (The link got trimmed since the first email somehow- here it is:
> )
> *^*^*^*^**^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^
> Is that like our Green Party? -- Not a single clearly non-negative remark
> about a column that probably reaches thousands of non-Greens on a weekly
> basis, written by a Green leader who some presumably uninformed Greens
> accuse of being pro-Democrat.
>
> What might have been non-negative comments? Things like
> - discussing which of these logical gambits have worked for us in talking
> with people or get us published in our local papers,
> - what any of us might have emphasized within the confines of the brutal
> 700-word op-ed l imit (which seems to be pretty universal, btw). Give real
> examples, which would be a real positive contribution to more of us
> communicating effectively with more non-Greens.
> - what is a good way to remind rank-and-file Dems of their responsibility
> to clean up "their party" or to do something else to repair the damage
> they are doing?
> - "hey, if LaMarche was responsible for a pro-Democrat campaign as our
> veep candidate in '04, how come she's rippin'em a new one so vigorously?"
>
> IMHO, any initiative can be improved, but this atmosph ere wh ere no
> effort is good enough can make a person wonder why someone would bother to
> be associated with this crowd.
>
> Remember the word solidarity? Or the phrase An Injury To One Is An Injury
> To All?
>
> There are a lot of people who give much of their life to the things we
> believe in, but have you noticed how few stick wi th the Green Party? I
> would suggest that the reasons most often have to do with the Party whose
> activists behave in destructive ways, not with the constructive people who
> leave.
>
> Thanks for listening
> and thinking
> John
> -*-
> John Atkeison
> TMobile (302) 345-0607
> Cingular Only (302) 753-0720
> john@atkeison.org http://Atkeison.org/
> 302 River Road, Building B #10, Wilmington, DE 19809
>
> On Wed, June 20, 2007 1:37 pm, a.gronowicz@att.net wrote:
>> It does, unfortunately, allow for the mention of John Way ne who se
>> pro-Vietnam War stance put him to the right of John McCain.
>>
>> Tony
>>
>> -------------- Original message from "Nancy Allen" :
>> --------------
>>
>>
>>> Hey Zool!
>>> The Bangor _______________________________________________ Peace mailing
list Peace@lists.gp-us.org http://lists.gp-us.org/mailman/listinfo/peace
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<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D281273222-20062007>Tony and all, </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D281273222-20062007>i'm moving this discussion to the discussion=20
list.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D281273222-20062007>My thoughts and hopes interspersed=20
below.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D281273222-20062007>Thank you,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D281273222-20062007>joni</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> peace-admin@lists.gp-us.org=20
[mailto:peace-admin@lists.gp-us.org] <B>On Behalf Of=20
</B>a.gronowicz@att.net<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, June 20, 2007 5:28=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> peace@lists.gp-us.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [GPUS-PAX] =
Democrats lack the guts- Expose of the Dems by one of our=20
own<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><!-- WEBMAIL STATIONERY noneset -->
<DIV></DIV>
<P>The facts as cited in numerous newspaper articles quoting La Marche =
speak for=20
themselves. </P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </P>
<P>Were they all "misquoting"?</P>
<P> </P>
<P>In violation of the rules,I was removed from ONE committee when I =
persisted=20
at the time of the 2004 campaign in pointing out how our anti-war =
independent=20
position was being undermined by her pro-Kerry statements. I was quickly =
reinstated.</P>
<P> </P>
<P>I was just re-elected to that committee-- the International =
Committee.<SPAN=20
class=3D281273222-20062007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2> =20
*Congratulations! I hope you all are doing well there, tough time in our =
history=20
to be on an International Committee! </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P> </P>
<P>The results of the 2004 election speak for themselves. =
Safe-states and=20
worse was an electoral disaster for this party. It severely =
"undermined"=20
our party. It almost "destroyed" us, but for the majority Nader =
supporters=20
among us. <SPAN class=3D281273222-20062007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2> </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=3D281273222-20062007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>When or=20
if Safe States become an issue then that may be a time to =
bring your=20
thoughts up on the NC. But for Here and for Now,</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=3D281273222-20062007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>on GPAX=20
at this time, it's hardly productive or giving us who haven't even =
gotten to=20
know you yet a great first impression. It would be good to begin =
again,=20
perhaps on the issues of Peace in which you'd like to be a part? Please =
tell us=20
why you've asked to be vetted for gpax!</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P> </P>
<P>The venom comes from you who use words such as "trash".<SPAN=20
class=3D281273222-20062007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2> </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=3D281273222-20062007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Defenses=20
come up and then Offenses, when Offenses are made out of Defenses...it's =
a cycle=20
that doesn't often get a lot of leg room on=20
this list.</FONT> </SPAN></P>
<P> </P>
<P>Tony</P>
<P> </P>
<P>P.S. And why quote from John Wayne, a war-monger? Why not Mark Twain, =
an=20
anti-imperialist?<SPAN class=3D281273222-20062007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2> </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=3D281273222-20062007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>If you=20
write up an article using that wonderful source i would Love to read=20
it! </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=3D281273222-20062007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Peace=20
and Civility,</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=3D281273222-20062007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>joni</FONT> </SPAN><BR></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px =
solid">--------------=20
Original message from "John Atkeison" <john@atkeison.org>:=20
-------------- <BR><BR>Tony has been removed from the email list of =
other=20
committees for carrying on his personal vendetta against Pat and =
disrupting=20
work by doing so. Maybe it is time for a "time out" here as =
well.<BR><BR>Just=20
one comment so the trash does not go unchallenged. How many of us have =
spoken=20
with a journalist only to find that what we said was distorted? I =
happened to=20
me about a year ago when I was the manager of the Berg for Congress =
campaign.=20
Then it gets picked up by other outlets owned by the same people, and =
god help=20
you if it is a big one like Gannett or Associated Press! So, who am =
*I* gonna=20
believe- the Green who is bustin their butt for us and has integrity =
and=20
dedication, or the corporate media that we all bash for good=20
reason?<BR><BR>Pat and the Maine Greens have built the GP with the =
largest per=20
capita Green registration <SPAN style=3D"FONT-STYLE: italic">in the=20
country--</SPAN> not NY, not CA, but <SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-STYLE: italic">Maine</SPAN>. She is the public face of =
that Party.=20
Why would someone want to attack her and be so venomous? <BR><BR>Why =
are we=20
are allowing a few in our midst to undermine and destroy us? It has to =
stop.=20
<BR><BR>John<BR><BR>On Wed, June 20, 2007 3:57 pm, a.gronowicz@att.net =
wrote:<BR>> I mean to say here that the newspapers cited in =
footnote 1=20
reached<BR>> thousands of readers, not my book.<BR>> <BR>> =
Tony=20
Gronowicz www.greenmayor.org<BR>> <BR>> -------------- Original =
message=20
from a.gronowicz@att.net: --------------<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> An =
excerpt=20
from my U.S. history with citations (that reached thousands of<BR>> =
readers=20
as well)with respect to LaMarche's role in 2004:<BR>> <BR>> She =
openly=20
supported Kerry, while unequivocally denying that she had done<BR>> =
so.[1]=20
Nine days before the presidential election, in a D artmouth<BR>> =
College=20
address, LaMarche stated. “I do not say vote for Kerry, I do =
not<BR>> say=20
the K word. So he’s not the perfect solution, he’s the =
only one we<BR>>=20
have.”[2] In an April 24, 2005, e-mail to the author, she denied =
ever<BR>>=20
having supported Kerry, stating unequivocally, “I have never =
made a<BR>>=20
pro-Kerry comment.”<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> =
[1] Portland=20
Press Herald, June 30, 2004; Kennebec Journal/Central Morning<BR>>=20
Sentinel, June 30, 2004; New Haven Advocate, August 5, 2004;=20
Associated<BR>> Press, Lincoln, Nebraska, August 3, 4, 2004; =
Brunswick (ME)=20
Times Record,<BR>> September 20, 2004; Associated Press, Clark =
Canfield,=20
October 7, 2004;<BR>> “Greetings from Green Vice Presidential =
Candidate Pat=20
LaMarche to the<BR>> Greens, October 30, 2004; Michael Reagan@Times =
Record.com. Novemb er 12,<BR>> 2004<BR>> [2] The Dartmouth, =
October 25,=20
2004.<BR>> http://www.thedartmouth.com/article.php?aid=3D20041025=20
01020<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> -------------- Original message from =
"John=20
Atkeison" <JOHN@ATKEISON.ORG>:<BR>> --------------<BR>> <BR>> =
I write=20
with sorrow, not anger.<BR>> (The link got trimmed since the first =
email=20
somehow- here it is:<BR>> <HTTP:=20
viewpoints.aspx?articleid=3D"151193&zoneid=3D35" t=3D"" news=3D""=20
www.bangordailynews.com=3D"">)<BR>> =
*^*^*^*^**^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^<BR>> Is=20
that like our Green Party? -- Not a single clearly non-negative =
remark<BR>>=20
about a column that probably reaches thousands of non-Greens on a=20
weekly<BR>> basis, written by a Green leader who some presumably =
uninformed=20
Greens<BR>> accuse of being pro-Democrat.<BR>> <BR>> What =
might have=20
been non-negative comments? Things like<BR>> - discussing which of =
these=20
logical gambits have worked for us in talking<BR>> with people or =
get us=20
published in our local papers,<BR>> - what any of us might have =
emphasized=20
within the confines of the brutal<BR>> 700-word op-ed l imit (which =
seems=20
to be pretty universal, btw). Give real<BR>> examples, which would =
be a=20
real positive contribution to more of us<BR>> communicating =
effectively=20
with more non-Greens.<BR>> - what is a good way to remind =
rank-and-file=20
Dems of their responsibility<BR>> to clean up "their party" or to =
do=20
something else to repair the damage<BR>> they are doing?<BR>> - =
"hey, if=20
LaMarche was responsible for a pro-Democrat campaign as our<BR>> =
veep=20
candidate in '04, how come she's rippin'em a new one so =
vigorously?"<BR>>=20
<BR>> IMHO, any initiative can be improved, but this atmosph ere wh =
ere=20
no<BR>> effort is good enough can make a person wonder why someone =
would=20
bother to<BR>> be associated with this crowd.<BR>> <BR>> =
Remember the=20
word solidarity? Or the phrase An Injury To One Is An Injury<BR>> =
To=20
All?<BR>> <BR>> There are a lot of people who give much of their =
life to=20
the things we<BR>> believe in, but have you noticed how few stick =
wi th the=20
Green Party? I<BR>> would suggest that the reasons most often have =
to do=20
with the Party whose<BR>> activists behave in destructive ways, not =
with=20
the constructive people who<BR>> leave.<BR>> <BR>> Thanks for =
listening<BR>> and thinking<BR>> John<BR>> -*-<BR>> John=20
Atkeison<BR>> TMobile (302) 345-0607<BR>> Cingular Only (302)=20
753-0720<BR>> john@atkeison.org http://Atkeison.org/<BR>> 302 =
River=20
Road, Building B #10, Wilmington, DE 19809<BR>> <BR>> On Wed, =
June 20,=20
2007 1:37 pm, a.gronowicz@att.net wrote:<BR>>> It does, =
unfortunately,=20
allow for the mention of John Way ne who se<BR>>> pro-Vietnam =
War stance=20
put him to the right of John McCain.<BR>>><BR>>>=20
Tony<BR>>><BR>>> -------------- Original message from =
"Nancy=20
Allen" :<BR>>> =
--------------<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>>=20
Hey Zool!<BR>>>> The Bangor=20
=
</HTTP:></JOHN@ATKEISON.ORG>_____________________________________________=
__=20
Peace mailing list Peace@lists.gp-us.org=20
http://lists.gp-us.org/mailman/listinfo/peace </BLOCKQUOTE><!-- END =
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